Cdr. (R) Sadeed A. Malik
We have gone into the dirt the way things are happening all over, we should get out of it and start reconstruction and I may clarify right here that we are a completely non-political entity. We had aimed that we will be inviting majority students and younger lot of Pakistanis and construct an underground state-of-the-art auditorium and a library, Jinnah Library, however the technical committee is still pondering over it how to go about it and then we started off doing it the way we are doing it today and in fact in the recent past we have had three functions and because of which it was very largely attended. Three of our members of the board of Governors contracted Corona and as a matter of fact I’m very grateful to Mr. Liaquat Merchant who was ill and because of these functions he was very tired but he decided to come at least for a few minutes. Thank you sir. May I now request Mr. Ikram Sehgal to kindly moderate.
Mr. Ikram Sehgal
Bismillah-ir-Rahman Raheem, Thank you Cdr. Sadeed Malik. Mr. Liaquat Merchant and Senator Walid Iqbal, ladies and gentlemen i can see your occasional day to here. We deliberately kept this small because this place is small and therefore we arranged for live streaming and therefore whatever is happening here is going out live to a lot of places. We looked at a lot of what Cdr. Sadeed Malik has talked about, the Institute of National Nation Building, we looked at what was happening from time to time at the Quaid-e-Azam’s Mazar where people go for a photo opportunity, but you know we found that there was no real learning for which we could convey or could be conveyed to the younger generation of Pakistan as to how it all came into being, so we came across an idea of having the grandnephew of the man who created Pakistan, Liaquat Merchant and speak about Allama Iqbal, the person who had the vision for Pakistan, and have the grandson of Allama Iqbal talk about the Quaid-e-Azam the man who created Pakistan. I think that was to get to the real roots of where we started from in 1940 and I think I’m very grateful to both Liaquat and senator Walid Iqbal who without hesitation, by the time I had finished the sentence, they said ‘Yes’ to it; Senator Iqbal has just come back from abroad and he’s just flown in for this occasion only for which I’m grateful, and in these circumstances I’m very grateful.
What do we see happening around us and I’m not going to comment on the political side or the economic side, etc. but really where are we today? How far we are away from 1940 leave aside 1947. How far away from the dreams and the aspirations that our forefathers thought about and we really need to go back to the roots and what better than these two to be talking about it. I’m very grateful to Liaquat, he was very unwell in the morning and you know he said I will not be able to make it, later on he said, but I will try. So in the meantime I was thinking about what to do because Senator Walid Iqbal was already here, so I then how we say in the armed forces, you do a quick run and so we to I rang up Dr. Irfan Haider and requested him to come. So what I’m going to do now, moderation aside, after Liaquat has said his piece and also Senator Walid Iqbal, I am going to request Dr. Irfan Haider to say a few words on both the Quaid and the Allama Iqbal and comment on their speeches and after that of course we’ll have a question and answer session. So without further ado, I now request Liaquat to kick off and talk about the Allama Iqbal.
Mr. Liaquat Merchant
Assalam-o-Alaikum, Ikram Sehgal Chairman of Karachi Council on Foreign Relations, Vice Chairman of the Board of Management, Cdr. Sadeed Malik, Senator Walid Iqbal son of the illustrious Allama Iqbal, distinguished guests, before I embark upon saying what little I know about Allama Iqbal, what I have read my specialized topic of course has been Jinnah all my life but whatever I know about Allama Iqbal, before I get to that I would like to express some pleasantries. I met Walid Iqbal for the first time today and I hope to get to know him better as years go on but I had the great honor and distinction of knowing his late father Justice Javed Iqbal, who shared a platform with me in 2006 at Beach Luxury Hotel, we both spoke on the same platform on Jinnah, and once again in 2007 when we invited them as our chief guest for the Jinnah Awards ceremony at Karachi. So I met him on two occasion. He honored us by visiting our house and having dinner with me and my wife Justice Nasir Iqbal and his wife was all accompanied him to our house and we were indeed very pleased and honored to meet both of them, so this is about the general background that I have known your father in those days. Coming back to the topic which Ikram Sehgal has chosen today I would begin by saying simply that while Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah is considered as Pakistan’s founding father I consider Allama Iqbal as the ideological father of Pakistan. Ideological because he was the one man who conceived a separate Muslim state comprising of Sindh, Balochistan, Punjab and Frontier in 1930, way back in 1930. He conceived this idea but did not name it Pakistan, he called it a separate independent Muslim state where the Muslims of India could rise and achieve their goals.
Prior to that we had Sir Syed Ahmed Khan in Aligarh who started the movement in support of the Muslims in 1939. Mr. Jinnah made his last will and testament from Bombay in which he left large sums of money mainly to educational institutions which included a legal Muslim university Sindh Madrassa and Islamia College Peshawar; the reason why he did that and also prepared and moved a trust dawn was established by Jinnah. He established the dawn trust for one main reason, he wanted the Muslims of India to receive educated public opinion on all matters concerning India and the Muslim world so that motivated him to establishing a trust. So here you see the two great leaders Allama Iqbal who in 1930 conceived of the idea of Pakistan. Later in 1932-33 Chaudhary Rehmat Ali he was a Barrister as well from England in 1933 drew up a paper a pamphlet and circulated all over the place in which he identified these four portions in India which Allama Iqbal had identified and he called it Pakistan for the first time in 1933, that pamphlet is there and it is called Pakistan the idea was the same as Allama Iqbal the idea was the same as Jinnah they wanted the Muslims to live there and thrive and achieve their goals which I believe from what they said and did was to achieve political and economic independence and to freely practice and propagate their religious faith and beliefs having said that what is the connection between Jinnah and Iqbal? Iqbal was an ideological person, a famous poet, Pakistan’s national poet, he inspired people he did not go out into the political fray and when I say political fray I do not mean the political freedom of witnessing today in Pakistan, politics was much more very much more decent in those days and dignified, so he was the one who inspired Jinnah I mean you know went away from India in 1936 to England and got cut up of politics and didn’t want to come back it was Iqbal who persuaded him to come back in fact before I go any further, there are several letters exchanged between Jinnah and Iqbal during the 30sand the one that I consider relevant is the one which he wrote to Jinnah on 21st of June 1937, in which Allama Iqbal said to in the letter “You are the only Muslim in India today to whom the community has a right to look up for safe guidance through the storm which is coming to the north west India and perhaps to the whole of India”. So this is the faith and the trust which Allama Iqbal the founding father of Pakistan, the iron man who conceived Pakistan lies to Jinnah you are the only man who can Muslims can look for guidance to achieve their hopes and aspirations and guide them through this.
Unfortunately for all of us in Pakistan, Allama Iqbal passed away, if I’m not wrong in 1938 very prematurely because of some illness which he contracted in one of his tours and he succumbed to it, very unfortunate but let there be no doubt in the minds of everybody present here today and everybody in Pakistan, that Pakistan has two national heroes, Allama Iqbal and Muhammad Ali Jinnah, there is no doubt that they are both ranked on the same footing and they both deserve to be idolized and remembered at every stage in our lives but for Allama Iqbal but for Muhammad Ali Jinnah and but for the Pakistan Resolution passed on 23rd march 1940 at Lahore, you and I would not be sitting here today as free citizens of a Muslim independence sovereign state. So ladies and gentlemen I would like to once again reiterate that we in Pakistan, ‘we’ means all Pakistanis owe a debt of gratitude to Allama Iqbal for his guidance on the concept of a Muslim state and to Jinnah for having struggled over the years, led the battle with the Congress, the British and gave us our dreamland home state of Pakistan.
On a lighter side, through the works that I have done since for the last 25-30 years as a student in India when I was taken to meet Mr. Jinnah at the age of seven by my grandmother, I didn’t know what Jinnah was about and I didn’t know what Pakistan was about we only saw a tall lanky man and a white suit coming and shaking hands with us and going away. Well my interest was not there either in Pakistan in those days in Bombay, my interest developed only when I met Fatima Jinnah in 1964 and that’s when she told me why are you wasting your time in India? Come here this is the country you should be living in, very bluntly she said why are you wasting your time in India. Anyway then ultimately I did migrate, I was working with my uncle, Jinnah’s nephew in Bombay practicing law, I did migrate here but the interest in Jinnah and in Pakistan really overcame me in 1980, when the High Court appointed me as Administrator of the estate of ideas that is when the increase started germinating and it picked hold and till today it has grown stronger and stronger and stronger and I wish to continue with this interest and this campaign as long as I live. So before I conclude I will ask you to spread the message to your family, your children and to all your friends who you meet and tell them how important a role was played by Allama Iqbal in the creation of this country along with Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah. Thank you.
Mr. Ikram Sehgal
Very well spoken Liaquat and I think given the fact that you were unwell the words that came out really resonated with the passion and the feeling that you have, like you said the germination of the idea in 1980. Many people have visions send them live to create it, that’s what happened to Allama Iqbal, but one thing I must tell you that knowing Liaquat for many years, he was the predecessor as the Chairman of Karachi Council on Foreign Relations and you know I looked up to him, he’s been a friend for a long time, you can see the character of the Quaid-e-Azam coming down and down the years and you know I think, one very small thing but you know for example even the tea and the samosas we have during our board meetings, he does not allow it to be paid for, either he pays for it or I pay for it, he makes sure that nothing is charged to the administration. So I think the character shows. I now have great pleasure in inviting Senator Walid Iqbal. You know your father was the icon keeping aside your grandfather of which Liaquat spoke about, your father was an icon, your mother was an icon, and this continues. The way you reacted when I proposed this to you, look at this so many years have elapsed and we do not have the people who founded Pakistan speak about each other, you can speak about Allama Iqbal and Liaquat can speak about Jinnah but to speak about each other, to speak about your forefathers, and therefore it gives me great pleasure of inviting senator Walid Iqbal, Thank you.
Senator Walid Iqbal
Bismillah-ir-Rahman Raheem, Honorable host of this afternoon Mr. Ikram Sehgal, Cdr. Sadeed Malik, Honorable Guest Speaker Mr. Liaquat Merchant, Ladies and Gentlemen Assalam-o-Alaikum. I am very happy to be here in Karachi at what would appear to be a critical juncture in Pakistan’s history, Pakistan’s political constitutional history, and on a lighter note I’ll start first, as Mr. Ikram Sehgal said since I’m specially here all the way from Lahore and gave example that our father of the nation Muhammad Ali Jinnah had said in terms of austerity and proper use of national resources today if you will be kind enough please do send to me the bill for the samosas entity I will pick up the tab. I am tasked to talk about Muhammad Ali Jinnah, the father of the nation, the founder of our country as an independent State and a great hero for all of us. When I would be talking about Quaid-e-Azam it would be not just about him as a person it would be about two elements in Pakistan’s history, the principles that gave us this country and the leadership that gave us this country. So talking about Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah is like talking about certain principles and certain leadership and as far back as one can go, the important milestones at start in 1930 with the Allahabad address and they see some sort of a culmination in the Lahore Resolution which was passed on the 23rd of March well that was the annual session spread over 22nd, 23rd and 24th of March at Minto Park, now Iqbal Park Lahore and the resolution so passed was called the Lahore Resolution, later on became the Pakistan Resolution. Just this week we celebrated the 82nd anniversary of the passing of that Resolution as we are celebrating the 75th year of Pakistan’s independence so it is through the personality Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah to go back to those principles and to that leadership that gave us Pakistan. And because I think a starting point should be the 23rd March Resolution it had two substantive parts in 1940 first was about independence and sovereignty, it was a demand for independence and sovereignty that’s the first pillar on which the 23rd March Resolution stands, the second pillar is about the protection of the rights of minorities, it is a demand and a promise a promise by the Muslims of India that where they are in majority they will protect the rights of the minorities, administratively, religious rights administrative rights, economic, cultural, political, etc. Likewise that promise was coupled with the demand in that Resolution that where the Muslims are in a minority those rights will be protected by those who are in the majority i.e. those same religious and cultural and political and economic and administrative rights. And those two principles are expounded by Allama Iqbal in his address of 1930 at Allahabad on the 29th of December that year. 10 years earlier and I quote to you those are the famous words from that address I would like to see the Punjab Northwest Frontier, Sindh and Balochistan amalgamated into a single state self-governed within the British Empire or without the British empire the formation of a consolidated north west Indian Muslim state appears to me to be the final destiny of the Muslims at least of northwest India so that independence and sovereignty, the seeds of that had been sowed in 1930 which found their way into the resolution of 1940. On safeguarding of minority rights the Allahabad address has other stuff in it also but for the small paragraph other than this small sentence or paragraph about independence sovereignty Allama Iqbal says a community which is inspired by feelings of ill will towards other communities is low and ignoble, I entertain the highest respect for the customs, laws, religious and social institutions of other communities, nay he says in the Allahabad address, nay it is my duty according to the teaching of the Quran even to defend their places of worship if need be, he was undoubtedly, he hasn’t made the necessary reference but it is believed that he was referring to Surah number 20 and Ayat number 40 where in the Quran it is said “if God had not created the group of Muslims to ward off the others from aggression then churches, synagogues, oratories and mosques where God is worshipped, most would have been destroyed”.
I also want to submit to you ladies and gentlemen the consonance between the ideas of Allama Iqbal and Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, going back to 1930 I told you there are many other things in the address of 1930 other than that one paragraph about independence and the dream of a new state or a separate state. In 1929 Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, then known as just Mr. Jinnah, presented his 14 points, the first of those 14 points said that the form of the future constitution should be federal with the residuary powers to be vested in the provinces. This was in 1929 , one year later Allama Iqbal in the Allahabad address states that ‘to my mind a unitary form of government is simply unthinkable in self-governing India what is called residuary powers he writes in quotation marks must be left entirely to self-governing states with the central federal state exercising only those powers which are expressly vested in it. Ladies and gentlemen as we take stock, you know of those principles and that leadership, where do we stand on all of these matters
I want to posit to you what AllamaIqbal said in 1930 about leadership in that same address and at that time he felt that the Muslims of India suffered from various crises and the one that he refers to, let me tell you frankly this is towards the end of his Allahabad address, that at the present moment the Muslims of India are suffering from two evils, the first is the want of personalities, I’m leaving aside the second evil, he says the first is the want of personalities the community has failed to produce leaders and then he describes what the leader should be. He says by leaders I mean men who by divine gift or experience possess a keen perception of the spirit and destiny of Islam along with an equally keen perception of the trend of modern history. A keen perception of the spirit and destiny of Islam number one with an equally keen perception of the trend of modern history and then he says in the Allahabad address that such men are really the driving forces of the people but they also are God’s gift and cannot be made to order. In 1930 he felt that the Muslims of India had no leader and in 1936 in May. I’m sure my father when he was invited by Mr. Liaquat Merchant on both occasions would have repeated that story from his own personal history which I only reiterate second hand that in May 1936 he writes that my father in his memo said ‘my father Allama Iqbal told me an important personality is coming and he knew I was fond of getting autographs so he said when he comes you will be invited inside and you present your autograph book and get this person’s autograph. So he said I went inside the room and I saw this elegantly dressed man with a very sharp vision and a lady in a white Gharara, a very respectable lady in a white Gharara, I went inside and I gave my autograph book and put it in front of the guest and the first question came in English, ‘Are you also a poet?’ and as he was 11 or 12 years old, my father he said ‘No sir’ upon which he asked ‘then what do you want’, ‘what would you want to become when you grow up?’ A child of 11 or 12 before such a powerful personality, such a great awesome personality, had no answer so he laughed and asked his host ‘Your son is not answering, I asked him what does he want to become when he grows up’ Allama Iqbal told the guest that “he will not answer because he is waiting for you to tell him what to become when he grows up.” So my father writes in his memos that was my first meeting with the father of the nation Muhammad Ali Jinnah and Mohtarma Fatima Jinnah.
At that time the concept or the name of Pakistan had not emerged yet and hardly anybody knew this to be important, hardly anybody knew Mr. Jinnah in the Punjab but I could tell from that one meeting how much my father respected him and one year later when Allama Iqbal was in his deathbed there’s another story about which there is popular folklore again. My father was asked by Allama Iqbal that today Pundit Nehru is going to come and see me so I can’t get out of bed you go and receive him along with my attendant, that is why we were waiting in the veranda. I asked my father ‘who is Pundit Nehru?’ He replied that Pundit Nehru is just like Muhammad Ali Jinnah who is the leader of the Muslims while Pundit Nehru is the leader of the Hindus in India”, We were waiting in the veranda and Pundit Nehru got out of his car with two Congress leaders, husband and wife, came with him and as he passed me I said Assalam Alaikum so he joined both his hands and said Namaskar. He put his arm around me and he walked to my father’s bed. My father didn’t go inside for that meeting but what is believed and what is known and what is said about that meeting is that Pundit Nehru came and sat cross-legged on the floor along with his two companions also sat cross-legged on the floor with him for reasons of protocol. , Dr. Iqbal said Pundit Jee please sit on the sofa, he said No No Dr. Iqbal your level is this and my level is this let me sit here and then in the course of the conversation he had come to ask for his help. So in the course of the conversation he is known to have said “Dr. Iqbal who knows about Muhammad Ali Jinnah over here, you are the real leader of the Muslims then” when Dr. Iqbal heard this he was so angered that his face reddened in anger that he said to Pundit Nehru ;this is what you have come to ask about my health, I am a soldier of Muhammad Ali Jinnah, you please leave my home”. And that is how he became that person, he found that person, that personality which fit into the qualities that he had articulated in his addressed of 1930. he had decided that this man is going to lead the Muslims then no force on earth could make Dr. Iqbal back off from there including the temptation that Pundit Nehru had thrown at him that ‘you are the real leader of the Muslims’. He was asked also at that point, this is the mid-1930s, 1936 and 1937 that, why have you chosen this leader? Why this man? Allama Iqbal answered “Muhammad Ali Jinnah because he is incorruptible and un-purchasable”.
I want to now just make brief references as Mr. Liaquat Merchant already did there are 13 letters that Allama wrote to Quaid in 1936 and 1937 which are published and they give a blueprint of what he had in mind about the nation that he had dreamt of and about the leadership and the steps that he was wanting Muhammad Ali Jinnah to take. At that time he was still not known as Quaid-e-Azam but Quaid-e-Azam himself had preserved those letters and had them published in 1946; he wrote the preface and he directed the publisher that all proceeds of this booklet will go to the funds of the all India Muslim League that he was leading. In the preface Quaid-e-Azam writes the letters which formed the subject of this booklet were written to me by the sage philosopher and national poet of Islam the late Dr. Sir Muhammad Iqbal during the period May 1936 to November 1937 a few months before his death this period synchronizes with a very eventful period in the history of Muslim India he writes his views Quaid is writing about Iqbal his views were substantially in consonance with my own and had finally led me to the same conclusion as a result of careful examination of the constitutional problems facing India and found expression in due course in the united will of Muslim India as a dump readied in the Lahore Resolution of the All India Muslim league popularly known as the Pakistan Resolution passed on 23rd march 1940.
From the letter dated 20 and all the letters start with the words ‘my dear Mr. Jinnah’ and end with the words ‘your sincerely, Muhammad Iqbal’ he writes “My dear Mr. Jinnah I know you are a busy man but I do hope Mr. Liaquat Merchant has already provided an excerpt but I am providing you a bigger excerpt, he writes: “I know you are a busy man but I do hope you won’t mind my writing to you so often as you are the only Muslim in India today to whom the community has the right to look up for safe guidance through the storm which is coming to northwest India and perhaps the whole of India’. He writes “My dear Mr. Jinnah, I have no doubt that you fully realize the gravity of the situation as far as Muslim India is concerned, the League will have to finally decide whether it will remain a body representing the upper classes of Indian Muslims or the Muslim masses who have so far for good reason taken no interest in it personally. I believe that a political organization which gives no promise of improving the lot of the average Muslim cannot attract our masses. He writes “the problem of bread is becoming more and more acute, the question therefore is how is it possible to solve the problem of Muslim poverty”. He writes “happily there is a solution in the enforcement of the law of Islam and its further development in the light of modern ideas”. This is the letter dated 28th of May 1937, he writes “My dear Mr. Jinnah, after a long and careful study of Islamic law I have come to the conclusion that if this system of law is properly understood and applied at least the right of subsistence is secured to everybody but he says the enforcement and development of the Shariat of Islam is impossible in this country without a free Muslim state. This has been my honest conviction for many years and I still believe this to be the only way to solve the problem of bread for Muslims as well as to secure a peaceful India” and in conclusion he writes “for Islam the acceptance of social democracy for Islam in some suitable form and consistent with the legal principles of Islam is not only not a revolution but a return to the original purity of Islam”.
He writes “My dear Mr. Jinnah, Muslim India hopes that at this serious juncture your genius will discover some way out of our present difficulties” 28th of May 1937. He writes “My dear Mr. Jinnah, the Congress president has denied the political existence of Muslims in no unmistakable terms, the other Hindu political body, the Maha Sabha who I regard as the real representative of the massive of the Hindus has declared more than once that a united Hindu-Muslim nation is impossible in India in these circumstances. It is obvious that the only way to a peaceful India is a redistribution of the country on the lines of racial religious and linguistic affinities, a separate federation of Muslim provinces reformed on the lines I have suggested above is the only course by which we can secure a peaceful India and save Muslims from the domination of Non-Muslims. He writes “Why should not the Muslims of northwest India and Bengal be considered as nations entitled to self-determination just as other nations in India and outside India are” the letter dated 21st of June 1937. He writes on the 7th of October 1937 “My dear Mr. Jinnah, We are living in difficult times and the Indian Muslims expect that your teachings will give them the clearest possible lead in all matters relating to the future of the community. He writes on the 30th of October 1937, one of the last letters “My dear Mr. Jinnah, We must carry the work of organization more vigorously than ever and should not rest till Muslim governments are established in the five provinces and reforms are granted to Balochistan”. So the kind of correspondence, the exchange of ideas, the thoughts and feelings Allama had about Jinnah and the kind of messages, he wanted to convey because he felt that this leader was the embodiment of those qualities that an ideal leader is possessed with – the keen perception of the spirit and destiny of Islam, the equally keen perception of modern times and six more things that Iqbal has said about leadership. Nigaah Buland, Sukhan Dil Nawaz, Jahan Pursoz, these three qualities Vision (Nigaah Buland), a great communicator (Sukhun Dil Nawaz), somebody who can empathize with the masses (Jahan Pursoz) yehhee hay Rakht-e-Safar, Meer-e-Kawrwan kay liye. Three more qualities, “Sabaq Phir Parh Sadaqatka, Adalatka, Shujaatka, Sadaqat – truthfulness & honesty, Adalat – Justice, Shujaat – Courage, Liya Jaega Tujh se Kaam Dunia ki Imamat ka”.
So in conclusion the principles and the leadership that emerged between Allama’s thoughts and Quaid’s personality and his actions, (1) independence (2) sovereignty (3) self-determination (4) safeguarding minority rights (5) a federal structure (6) a social democracy which is a return to the original purity of Islam (7) a leader who grasps the spirit and destiny of Islam and also grasps the trend of modern history (8) a leader who can ride through the storm (9) a leader who is incorruptible and un-purchasable (10) who believes in the politics of the masses and not of the upper classes or the elites (11) a leader who is organized (12) a leader who is a visionary (13) a leader who is a sharp communicator (14) a leader who has empathy with others and (15) a leader who is truthful, just and courageous. These were the principles, this was the leadership that gave us Pakistan. When we take stock on the 26th of March 2022, we need to ask ourselves these question that how much have we adhered to these principles and how much of these qualities are possessed by our existing leadership, there lies the answer and there lies the solution to overcoming of all our challenges. Thank you very much for giving me this opportunity.
Mr. Ikram Sehgal
Senator Walid Iqbal, what a tremendous speech and I tell you it was worth all the effort to bring you here because you’ve expressed, like Liaquat before you, exactly the feelings that we wanted to go forth from this room. That three generations, two generations later the values do not change, the vision remains the same if the people change and I just want to tell you one thing about guarding the minorities. I have a company called Wackenhut which does cash transit vehicles in armored cars. After an incident where a church was bombed and set fire in Murree, we started guarding churches free of cost; we at one time were guarding 125 churches free of cost, that by itself very good. When I went and offered the 600 people who were doing the guarding because it was being done on Sundays and I offered them to take over time for four hours they flatly refused saying “it is our duty as Muslims to guard the minorities, we would not accept it” and today we guard maybe 35 churches still and you know the good thing also is that when these people go out to those churches from eight o’clock in the morning to 12 o’clock, the Christian church goers bring picnic baskets for them to feed them.
So it is a tremendous thing and I really feel that we go back to the vision of Allama Iqbal and the Quaid, the feelings they had and the truth you know about now we try to change states into state and things like that you know like what Liaquat and senator Walid Iqbal have talked about, because first of all it was the northwest frontier state they brought him. Afterwards and the Quaid and you know the time when the Quaid seriously gave permission to three people Suhrawardy, Fazl-ul-Haq and of course Abu-ul-Hashim to try on this thing but the British put in a condition because they said even if one vote is there against this in the Bengal Assembly that even though it was all healthy for a separate state that is Bengal and Assam west Bengal it was not allowed, so in the end then they decided to have a West Pakistan at that time separate state in one Pakistan, so I think you’ve seen a lot of history trade.
Now I’m going to request Dr. Irfan Haider say a few words. I want you to make talk about it because you are one of those eminent people who know about both much more than we do. So I think it would be great to listen to you. Thank you.
Dr. Irfan Haider
Thank you Ikram Sb, very thank you great people and a great legacy being carried by the people sitting over here. I do have my father as a student as a Leaguer from 1932 to 1938. The talk just now brought to me memories of Ganj-hai-Grama by Rashid Ahmed Siddiqui, so on the death of Allama Iqbal he wrote the feature in that book and he quoted one of his couplets over there which was: “Sikhlayi Farishtoun ko Adam ki Tarap jisne, Adam ko Sikhata hai Aadab-e-Khudawandi” that tarap was the vision that continuous change, the energy that was visible. So what is the message for us, I being the Vice Chancellor of Ziauddin University that consist of 6000 students and the name Ziauddin also stands for a person who was at Aligarh and he was the first pro chancellor in 1920 when it converted from a MAO college to the Aligarh University and then he was for 12 years the Vice Chancellor of Aligarh University.
Now carrying the legacy of such great people forward is a great responsibility and I think our generation has not done justice with that legacy and because we had not done justice that is the reason why we are here. So I will just relate the same, I think one of our basic in the education sector I think we have lost track of the basic lesson that was given “Ilm ki Shamma sey ho Mujhko Muhabbat Yarab”, today we have “paise ke shamma se ho mujhko muhabbat yarab”. Our universities have allowed us to run after money. Unfortunely this is what we have done with our universities and education and continue to do that. As far as Nigah e Buland is concerned, that transcends time and space, transcends everything, Nigah e Buland, in it is the spirit about which Senator Walid Iqbal spoke, the Islamic Rooh. and unless it does so it cannot attain or rise above Nigah e Buland. The other most important aspect revolves around communication, Sukhan Dil Nawaz i.e. what I say should touch the hearts of the people, unfortunately today there is a lot of negative aspects in talks and speeches being given, they are full of lies, accusations, and the like. As such where will that Sukhan Dil Nawaz come from that touches hearts and brings people together. Jahan Pursoz is that empathy that heals the sadness that resides in hearts and minds. I myself, as Vice Chancellor have great responsibility towards the 6000 students in the university and at times I keep wondering whether I have been living upto my duties of being responsible for them? Have I been able to produce even a handful of students who understand the message of Iqbal or the Quaid? Iqbal’s PhD dissertation was approved in just 6 months after he went to Germany, ironically we in Pakistan do not even approve a dissertation of the Allama; according to HESC rules Iqbal would not have been approved for a PhD. Muhammad Ali Jinnah was endowed with exceptional qualities – despite not knowing the language of the masses he was able to touch their hears, people would throng to his meetings in droves just to hear him speak even if they could not understand what he was saying, this was Jinnah’s quality, the empathy that touched peoples’ hearts. I just remembered, in the last point of the Lahore Resolution there is mention about the Constitution. Since then, unfortunately many have tried to bring in changes to the Constitution, this too is a huge challenge for us. So, thank you everyone.
Mr. Ikram Sehgal
You know this idea was floated to me in the morning by Dr. Huma Baqai when she gave me a few names. When I rang up Dr. Irfan Haider he did not take a moment to say Yes. We will just have a couple of questions from the audience, if somebody wants to ask questions of either Liaquat or senator Walid Iqbal.
Question & Answer Session
Q1: I am Ijaz Chaudhry, Retired Commodore from the Navy. My question is when the great Allama Iqbal started suggesting to the great Muhammad Ali Jinnah, at that time Jinnah was at the top of peak of his career in the law and judiciary, he was a barrister at that time when he was given this big problem of making Pakistan. So was it politically that mature because he was a great lawyer so was it his leadership qualities or a combination of political acumen that steered him to negotiate with the British to make Pakistan?
Mr. Liaquat Merchant
When you question whether Jinnah was capable of meeting the task that was given to him by the people, by the Muslims and by Allama Iqbal, you must remember that Jinnah started his life as a lawyer, he was a Parliamentarian, a member of the Indian Legislative Council and it started in the early 1900s i.e. 20th century. He was a member of that legislative body, he was a very fine parliamentarian, and he then joined the Congress Party for a number of years, maybe a decade or two. He then started advocating that India should remain united as he was called by the leaders of India as the best ambassador for Hindu-Muslim unity. He represented India at the Round Table Conferences with Allama Iqbal and the Aga Khan as an outstanding Indian Muslim. So politics was part and parcel then before that I forgot to mention when he was in England he was the private secretary to Dadabhai Nauroji the first member of British Parliament in England so his grooming has been there from the beginning in the art and nature of politics from the student days and that continued when he became member of the Indian legislative assembly. Then he got into the Indian Congress Party and functioned as the best ambassador of Hindu-Muslim unity and it was only when Mahatma Gandhi started maligning him and sidelining him by referring to him only as a leader of the Muslim minority community in India that he started to part ways with the Congress. He then ultimately joined the Muslim League and then quickly rose to prominence. So Jinnah had all available opportunities to be trained not only in the profession of law or the study of the Constitution but even in the art of politics. I hope that answers your question.
Senator Walid Iqbal
I was trying to find that place in my notes so that no doubt remains my answer would be short. I believe at the time especially after 1930 that at least Allama Iqbal as a scholar, intellectual and the leader of the Muslim community decided that Muhammad Ali Jinnah would be the only person capable of leading the Muslims, there was a combination of factors, it was the multifaceted personality, his outstanding and sterling career as a lawyer and his political acumen both but coupled with that I will again reiterate, I mean I know whose words these are and I know what he meant that he believed that Muhammad Ali Jinnah later Quaid-e-Azam possessed the keen perception of the spirit and destiny of Islam along with his legal acumen and his political acumen, and he was possessed with an equally keen perception of the trend of modern history and there are parallels in the lives of Iqbal. The thinking of Iqbal and Jinnah both, Iqbal himself was an Indian nationalist until 1903/1904 when he wrote “Sare Jahan se Acha, Hindustan Hamara” and then from 1905 to 1908 he went to study in Europe in England and Germany. This is just before a few years before the first World War and his view of nationalism changed completely and in that sense he was a little bit ahead of the curve than the Quaid-e-Azam in understanding this and he wrote in a letter in 1909 to Raja Krishna that “I used to think that the communities can coexist and this is as early as 1909 but I think that it’s an idealistic dream and in reality I do not believe it is possible for both communities to co-exist in India, they have to go their separate ways”.
So at that time there were even differences that Allama Iqbal had expressed about Jinnah and in those years between 1910 and 1920 it is not really found anywhere, he even wrote a poem which was a parody of Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah because he didn’t take him seriously enough, but it changed two decades later in 1930 and beyond. So all of those qualities that have been mentioned here, six qualities which are about aside from the keen perception of the spirit and destiny of Islam and keen perception of the trend of modern history. the vision, the communication, the empathy, the honesty, the justice, fair play, and the courage and guts that Mohammed Ali Jinnah possessed all combined together for Iqbal to put his full weight behind and put never veer off. Thank you.
Sorry, maybe I have done this on purpose but there was one other subject, an extremely important subject that i wanted to touch upon and I already know what Mr. Liaquat Merchant has written about it but I still want to present this view and i want to ask. On the 10th of July or the 10th of June 1947, this is a month or two before the Independence there is a handwritten note in the diary of Muhammad Ali Jinnah which says presidential form of government, and it is underlined, it is more suited for Pakistan so i will present this question to Liaquat Merchant that did the Quaid actually want and wish for and envisage a Presidential form of government, and if so, great if not, then why not?
Mr. Liaquat Merchant: Thank you I will be happy to answer that, in fact that particular note of Mr. Jinnah is in his own handwriting is part of this book which I will be presenting to Senator Walid Iqbal as a gift. For me those handwritten observations of Jinnah is something which is a reflection of his thoughts, passing thoughts in his mind as he was sitting somewhere but we will not know where he wrote this as this is not identified. But it was an observations of his mind while you are sitting somewhere, he has written a number of things he also taught what is the obligations of the State, is it to provide life, he said no, as Aristotle says “it is to provide the citizens with the good life”. Now coming down to the question of a Presidential form of government as opposed to a Parliamentary form of government I recently wrote a letter on this to the press in which I clarified that Mr. Jinnah in February 1948, prior to his demise, addressed the people of the USA and one of the questions that he had to answer was what will the future Constitution of Pakistan be like? His answer was very precise and clear, he said the Constitution of Pakistan will be what the people want it to be, but I am sure it will be a democratic type. Pakistan will not be a theocratic state, it will be a democratic Constitution in which will contain the essential principles of Islam. He did not clarify in much detail what the essential principles are but in subsequent messages given at the Karachi Bar Association and other places, to him the essential principles of Islam were honesty, integrity, justice, fair play and equality he wanted these principles to be incorporated in the Constitution of Pakistan but he said very clearly it would be what the people wanted to be. My argument in my letter to the Editor in response to somebody else he wanted these in the same question as the interval was that the people of Pakistan through their elected representatives in 1973 passed a Constitution of Pakistan which was with the consensus of all four provinces and if that was passed by the Parliament with the consensus of all four provinces by the representatives of the people of Pakistan, that is the Constitution that Mr. Jinnah said should be
Mr. Walid Iqbal: Mr. Ikram Sehgal, if I may continue. A question has been asked about voice recording of Allama Iqbal’s talks/ speeches. I had clarified this on 09 November 2020 at the President’s House when the President was also present and today I will try to address this issue again. Here in the archives of Radio Pakistan, in the archives of All India Radio, Durdarshan and everywhere in India because there was a relatively friendly government of Mooraji Desai in those days, in the records of the BBC Allama Iqbal’s voice is preserved nowhere, I have this it on good authority and if you get any message on WhatsApp or any other platform or forum through the social media or Facebook or Twitter or Instagram, it is fake, it is a hundred and twenty percent fake because Allama Iqbal’s voice has not been preserved anywhere. On the 1st of January 1938 on All India Radio a New Year’s message from Allama Iqbal was read out, but by then he had lost his voice and although he wrote that message in English but it was read out by somebody else, so just to reiterate Allama Iqbal’s voice is not preserved in any form anywhere and if you receive it in any form you can be sure that it is a fake and not authentic but what I want to come back to, because I said I did this on purpose the system of governance in Pakistan. On 10th of July, 1947 a handwritten note written by Muhammad Ali confirms Presidential form of government was more suited for Pakistan – this is what Muhammad Ali at that time Quaid-e-Azam, about to become the Governor General of India wrote that note which is authentic and can be found in authoritative research books and also in government archives.
I submit to you that Quaid-e-Azam in 1947 fully understood what was going on, he understood that Punjab was being divided, he understood that Bengal was being divided, he realized that there was a Congress led government in the NWFP, now KP and Sindh and Balochistan were facing separatist movements at that very time when he wrote this handwritten note so therefore to foil India’s nefarious designs Quaid’s intention was that Pakistan needed in his view a sound political system, a solid political system, a strong political system and we all know that Mountbatten wanted to become the Governor General of India, both India and Pakistan, and in one meeting he said that under British law and Parliamentary democracy the Prime Minister is the center of power and the Governor General is the ceremonial head of State so he said to the Quaid that “if you become the Governor General it will public opinion in Britain and India will turn against you. To this Quaid-e-Azam said indifferently and i quote “I will be the Governor General of Pakistan and the Prime Minister will do exactly what I tell him”. This can be found in Larry Collins and Dominique Lappiere’s book “Freedom at Midnight” Page 232. I also want to submit to you that on the 17th of January 1948. in a meeting of the Central Cabinet presided over by Quaid-e-Azam the cabinet members candidly expressed their views and their opinions and a Convention was unanimously passed on the 17th of January, 1948 by the Central Cabinet. The Convention was about the powers of the Governor General and the Convention said that every decision on policy and principle will be taken in a cabinet meeting presided over by the Quaid-e-Azam as Governor General; it also said that in case there is a difference of opinion between the Quaid and the cabinet or any cabinet member the Quaid’s decision shall be final and binding on the cabinet and on the minister concerned. The convention also said gave the Quaid the authority to summon the Secretary General of the government of Pakistan and the Secretary of the Ministry and that Secretary or Secretary General was bound to present any file or record to the Quaid as he desired. If the Quaid further provided that any matter be kept pending then it would be kept pending either until the Quaid ordered or directed to the contrary. Finally the convention was confined to the Quaid’s personality and it was to continue in effect until a constitution were enacted. This is in the cabinet meetings record in cabinet division Islamabad Q35, Volume 2, page 565. This cabinet decision makes it abundantly clear that at least the Quaid himself, leave aside that handwritten note, over and above that, the Quaid ran the affairs of the State of Pakistan under a Presidential system as opposed to a Parliamentary system. That is what the circumstances warranted, the Quaid also exercised sole control over all matters involving the rehabilitation of refugees from the tribal areas and the Princely States constituting Balochistan even though in a Parliamentary system a Governor General cannot exercise control over any division of the State; if the guy had wanted to, if he had supported the Parliamentary system, he would like Nehru have become the first Prime Minister of Pakistan. So I believe in my heart that the Quaid believed that not only believed that the Presidential form of government was more suited to Pakistan but during his life after Pakistan had gained independence and even he became the head of state he ran it himself as a Presidential system, so I believe in my heart and I have no quarrel with the fact that the 1973 Constitution is a unanimous one but i think we, the citizens of Pakistan need to ask whether this Constitution has delivered or whether it has just become a vehicle or an instrument of furthering personal interests, sectarian interests, provincial interests and of course, horse trading and blackmail. Maybe a time has come to ask regarding the Constitution Article 40 or 42 to the people of Pakistan in a referendum whether they are satisfied with the system or do they want a new system and maybe we should have an election of a Constituent Assembly so that we can give Pakistan a new Constitution and a new system which is not fraught with these frailties, and these challenges, these dishonesties and blackmail that we are all faced with. Thank you.
Mr. Liaquat Merchant: I am sorry but I thought we had agreed that we will not make this forum into a political discussion. I am sorry, Senator Walid Iqbal and regret that you have chosen to make a political discussion but I will not answer that because I don’t have to. This forum, as the Directors of the Board of Management, Quaid-e-House, is a non-political organisation and so is Jinnah Society. To close this chapter once and for all the 47 observations of Jinnah have been brought to an end and the cabinet thoughts and memorandum that you referred to have also been brought to an end but the last observation on the subject is of the 26th of February 1948 when Mr. Jinnah for whatever it is worth, as the Governor General of Pakistan said that the Constitution of Pakistan has yet to be framed by the Pakistan Constituent Assembly and I do not know what the ultimate shape of this Constitution is going to be but I am sure that it will be of a democratic type embodying the essential principles of Islam. Today they are applicable in actual life as they were 1300 years ago, Islam and his idealism have taught us democracy, taught us democracy, and equality of man, justice and fair play to everybody, we are the inheritors of these glorious traditions and are fully alive to our responsibilities and obligations as framers of the future Constitution of Pakistan. In any case Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with the divine mission. Here is a final chapter about whether Pakistan should be a Presidential form or a Parliamentary form and this was followed the Constituent Assembly framed the Constitution, it was overruled in 1956 after it was passed by a Dictator, then the four provinces framed the Constitution and I am afraid that is the final word if there’s going to be any change it will have to come from within Parliament.
Mr. Ikram Sehgal
Thank you, I am going to use my prerogative to bring this debate to an end, because I think we can go on and on for the next 12 hours. You know in your wildest imagination, with all due respects to Liaquat and Senator Walid, neither Allama Iqbal nor Muhammad Ali Jinnah thought that our beloved legislators would overnight turn into horses. Even in their nightmares they would not have thought about it. I think we have had a very good dialogue, and i think, let us say in the last exchange also the democratic way of disagreeing, you know, with respect to each other, that is the essence of it all. In the end, we need democracy, we do not need an authoritarian State, right, We need democracy.
Ladies and gentlemen, I thank you very much for being here at this event. Obviously the room was so we had invited a limited number of guests but this was live streaming and of course, a lot of material will be available tomorrow and I am sure our media people, the mediators always do a good job and I wish to acknowledge our people from within the Jinnah Society and from our KCFR, Liaquat Merchant. I wish to acknowledge Commodore Sadeed Malik whose work has been absolutely brilliant and wonderful because it is he along with a team of people led by Col Ashraf who arranged this at short notice. I also wish to acknowledge senior people from KCFR Admiral Khalid Mir, Air Marshall Riazuddin Shaikh, Dr. Irfan, in fact everybody, I can name a lot of people here and I am very grateful to you for coming. Thank you very much. Please join us for a cup of tea outside.
